tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post5685654168015917550..comments2022-03-02T07:17:43.492+00:00Comments on Ex Fide: The Antidoron, the Pain Benit and the Sunday Loafex_fidehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11966214834164246079noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-51386109878045783922011-10-13T11:58:14.514+01:002011-10-13T11:58:14.514+01:00Greetings. this is a very old blog on a very very ...Greetings. this is a very old blog on a very very old subject, but one that is occupying a much of my time. I would like to know from rubicarius which church he saw Fr ronald silk dispensing pain benit in cambridge? <br />My main area of study is the tradition of pain benit and wondered if anyone else has any knowledge of this practice in the UK<br />Blessing<br />Honey in the hearthmichaelthebakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14780685439717488891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-37997756731637453492011-10-04T11:07:06.374+01:002011-10-04T11:07:06.374+01:00Greeting Ex fide. I have just come across your sit...Greeting Ex fide. I have just come across your site looking for pain benit. What a beautiful thing it is. Your knowledge and passion is obvious. I am very keen to learn from you in my quest for the origins of sacred bread. I have written several times about this on my fromthehearth website. hope we can continue a fascinating dialogue. <br />honey in the hearth<br />michaelthebakerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-39408601573753139042010-09-05T21:50:47.315+01:002010-09-05T21:50:47.315+01:00In the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, the loaf used for...In the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, the loaf used for the Lamb, as well as that for the Theotokos, are both blessed in the sign of the Cross with the Lance, with accompanying prayer during the Rite of Prothesis. All the subsequent loaves are similarly signed in blessing, although no words are prescribed.<br /><br />I believe that the antidoron from these can fairly be described as "blessed" by reason of these actions, so that the subsequent step of signing the antidoron over the Consecrated Gifts at the anaphora, as is usual with the Greeks, or not, as is the Russian practice, should present no problem as to calling the Antidoron "Blessed Bread."B flathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17611595580578224726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-6970860077245018172010-08-28T23:10:32.126+01:002010-08-28T23:10:32.126+01:00The A.H. Pearson translation of the Sarum Missal g...The A.H. Pearson translation of the Sarum Missal gives some information. It groups ‘divers benedictions’ together at the end, noting that in various original books these were placed in different locations. There are two blessings of bread given (pp. 593 f.) without any suggestion of location or timing; followed by one headed “The Blessing of Bread on Sundays”, this begins with a rubric that the Priest says the Johanine Prologue. Pearson gives a footnote “i.e., this being the last Gospel at Mass, the bread was probably blessed in the sacristy afterwards”.<br /><br />The blessing proceeds:<br />V/. Blessed be the Name of the Lord.<br />R/. From this time forth for evermore.<br />V/. Let us give thanks to the Lord.<br />R/. Thanks be to God.<br />V/. The Lord be with you.<br />R/. And with thy spirit.<br />Let us pray.<br />Ble+ss, O Lord, this creature of bread, as Thou didst bless the five loaves in the wilderness, that all who taste of it may receive alike health of body and soul. Through.<br /><br />Then let the Priest sprinkle the bread with Holy Water<br /><br /><br />The reference to the Last Gospel does seem to tie it clearly with the celebration of Mass, though as an addition following it rather than an integral part. My understanding is that which you note, that former practice was to bless ‘things’ during the Canon itself; I seem to remember Fr. Hunwicke noting this point, though I fear I forget the reference and whether it is a significant discussion or mere passing comment.The Moderate Jacobitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02643594581501536867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-89618885527442338022010-08-27T08:24:27.039+01:002010-08-27T08:24:27.039+01:00Quite possibly, although at first, yes, they do ap...Quite possibly, although at first, yes, they do appear to be different things. The Sarum blessing of the Eulogion may be seen on page 31 of <a href="http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Sarum-Missal-2008-draft-Sept-08.pdf" rel="nofollow">this</a> PDF. <br /><br />Thank you, rubricarius, for that reference to the difference in Greek use. I agree with your feeling about the distribution of bread to the needy, and was touched to hear of its use in recent times.Bbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10989307876421460920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-20228845581428740742010-08-26T09:43:45.108+01:002010-08-26T09:43:45.108+01:00Can someone link me to the Sarum material please?
...Can someone link me to the Sarum material please?<br /><br />On further reflection it strikes me that the blessing of the bread during the canon in the Roman rite is quite anomalous, since the Byzantine antidoron comes from the moment of separation of the Lamb from the rest of the bread, and is considered holy, as Michael says, by virtue of that origin. As the Roman Mass has no vestige of that rite of selection (the offertory prayers starting with Suscipe Sancte Pater), and the bread supplied is ordinary bread, the blessed bread in the West seems to be quite a different thing. <br /><br />Still, an ancient Roman practice, to my knowledge was to bless things during the "Canon" (Lambs, loaves etc), so perhaps it's just evidence of an earlier divergence between Roman and Byzantine practice?ex_fidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966214834164246079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-76375728691772754392010-08-26T08:55:39.145+01:002010-08-26T08:55:39.145+01:00Very interesting post.
My understanding is that i...Very interesting post.<br /><br />My understanding is that in Greek praxis the antidoron is blessed by it being held over the Eucharistic elements on the Holy Table. In the Russian praxis it is considered 'blessed' as the Lamb has been cut from it.<br /><br />There are clearly many levels of typology here. Bread is a type of the body. The idea of the church giving bread to the poor really does resonate rather deeply to my thinking. The only place I have seen pain benit in this county was the at the former chapel of the late Fr. Ronald Silk (RIP/VP).Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-62130467268695826652010-08-25T19:27:15.063+01:002010-08-25T19:27:15.063+01:00Totally not meaningless. You've supplied the d...Totally not meaningless. You've supplied the details I didn't have and contributd to the post. <br /><br />Thanks againex_fidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966214834164246079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6047562015128313065.post-9378460284100050852010-08-25T19:20:47.703+01:002010-08-25T19:20:47.703+01:00Thank you for this.
Only recently I was giving th...Thank you for this.<br /><br />Only recently I was giving thought to the various ways that bread is used liturgically and quasi-liturgically as I was reading something indirectly related to the topic.<br /><br />Indeed, the eulogion bread is used in Sarum, and features in our Orthodox Western Rite. The parallel to the antidoron goes beyond its distribution at the end of the Liturgy but also the prayer of blessing the eulogion refers to the five loaves in the wilderness, leading to a common usage of blesing five loaves at this point, which is the same number of loaves used in the Byzantine Rite for the preparation of the Eucharist, and from which the antidoron is taken, (although modern Greek use has become somewhat lazy, using a large single loaf with the five squares stamped onto it). A difference, though, is that the eulogion is actually complete loaves set aside specifically for the purpose while the antidoron is the remnants of the bread for the Eucharist and the commemorations of the living and the dead.<br /><br />The question of the purpose of the antidoron is interesting as well. The word literally means "as opposed to/instead of the Gifts", and at one point, as you note, was given to those who had not communicated, but who had fasted. This is still the practice in the Old Rite. At some point it seems to have taken on the meaning of a sign of fellowship and is open to more or less everybody, in communion or not, fasted or not. I think it is pastorally useful and would not wish to change it, but I would be interested in learning more about this development.<br /><br />The other thing that interests me is the reference to the antidoron being blessed. I have seen this in just about every explanation of the antidoron that I have found anywhere, yet at no point is there an explicit blessing of this bread such as there is for the eulogion in Sarum, (although, in the Old Rite, the wine, and the wine only, is blessed). I can only imagine that it is simply considered blessed by virtue of being put to sacred use.<br /><br />Another way that bread is used in the Byzantine Rite is as part of the zapivka. After communion, each communicant takes three sips of wine diluted with hot water, and then takes a piece of bread for the purposes of ensuring that all of the Holy Things are swallowed. The name <i>zapivka</i> technically refers only to the wine and the bread comes from the same source as the antidoron, although it is not properly called <i>antidoron</i> at this point.<br /><br />Meaningless trivia, but there it is. :-)Bbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10989307876421460920noreply@blogger.com